By Waseem Sheikh

Q: There is an impression that NAB's accountability process is discriminatory, selective and is aimed at political victimization. It is sometimes used as a tool for political gains.

A: National Accountability Bureau is an independent and autonomous body. It operates strictly under the ambit of the National Accountability Ordinance. It takes pride in its professionalism and draws its strength from the law. NAB performs two major functions of investigating and prosecuting cases of corruption, misuse of authority and other white-collar crime. Each case is taken on its merit, without regard to any political and social affiliation or status. It must pass the net of strict legal scrutiny. Contrary to popular belief, no cases have been closed. Once a case is flied in court, NAB and the defendant become opposing parties and it is up to the courts to decide the cases one way or the other. Anything falsely attributed to NAB and its working is totally uncalled for. It would like to reiterate that nobody is above the law; it applies equally to everyone.

Q: In the beginning the accountability drive gathered momentum but with the passage of time it slowed down as a result of declining credibility of NAB. It is also being said that NAB is facing problems due to the inadequate and inefficient judicial system?

A: For the first time, NAB has taken a systematic and methodical approach to the corruption problems in Pakistan. Its anti corruption efforts have affected all sections of the society. The kind of groundbreaking work that NAB has done had not been attempted before. People considered virtually untouchables were booked for their crimes, resulting in wide publicity in the media. NAB's work never stops; fighting corruption is an ongoing process. NAB has till now filed 682 cases in various courts. Direct recoveries by NAB till May this year had come up to more than Rs. 115 billion. By all standards these figures are indicative of NAB's progress, which I think is fairly good. But as I said earlier, our work never stops. Corruption cannot be completely eliminated but we are trying to substantially reduce it.

Q: It is said that NAB's efforts to recover defaulted loans have run into problems since the involvement of State Bank of Pakistan. Don't you think it would have a negative impact on the financial situation of the banks?

A: The Supreme Court of Pakistan gave a decision in the NAB Vires case to amend the NAO and involve the State Bank of Pakistan in all cases of loan default. It was a welcome step that govt. chief financial regulatory body is now part of the whole process. We have close interaction with the State Bank of Pakistan and we share complete consensus of views. We also facilitate the recovery of loans through conciliatory committees. Referrals are sent to us for criminal proceedings in extremes cases only.

The other economic indicators like business lending by banks, direct foreign investment and the stock exchange reflect the positive trends in the financial markets.

Q: What do you propose for combating corruption at the lower level of judiciary, as it affects the common man. What measures do you propose for effective disposal of corruption cases?

A: The corruption in judiciary at lower level is a matter of concern for all of us. The writ and authority of a state and the social equilibrium erodes in a society where justice is lacking. The Provincial High Courts have taken a cognisance of the matter. It is hoped that the Access to Justice Program is likely to overcome most of the problems.

Q: NAB is accused of partial treatment to its detainees, where politicians, civil servants are not treated at par with retired military officers. How do you respond to this allegation?

A: NAB has set new standards in dealing with accused persons in custody. We have a tradition of treating our detainees fairly and in accordance with provisions of the law. The concerned judge orders facilities that may be given to an accused. We strictly believe that unless a person is declared guilty by a court of law he is considered to be an accused and has the right to be treated as such. We try to remain accessible to people and as transparent as our job demands. We strongly feel that the public has a right to know about our working and we feel accountable to them.

Q: NAB may have done well in holding people accountable for their actions but the military and the judiciary are exempt from their ambit. This has badly affected the credibility of NAB and has raised many questions about the National Accountability Ordinance?

A: The armed forces all over the world have their own investigating, prosecution and adjudicating services. They follow a much strict code of conduct for its members as opposed to general public. They relinquish their basic rights to be under this law, which is relatively harsher and deals very firmly with the offenders. This is needed due to special nature of their job. However, I would like to clarify that armed forces personnel working outside their parent organisations in other govt. departments are subject to the NAO. As regards the superior judiciary, they have the Supreme Judicial Council. It is essential to preserve the independence of the judiciary .

Supreme Court has laid down in NAB Vires case (2001) that accountability of officials belonging to armed forces and judiciary shall be made in the light of respective legal frameworks of both the organizations, i.e. the respective treatise of law of the armed services and Supreme Judicial Council.

Q: NAB may have served to discourage individual corruption in the public sector which has been stemmed to a certain extent but it has overall failed to end institutional corruption in organizations like, Police, CBR, Customs, CDA, Income Tax, etc. How do you respond to this line of thinking?

A: I do admit that certain organizations are notorious for institutional corruption. We have also instituted cases against certain officials of these departments. The National Anti Corruption Strategy recommends adopting internal accountability and establishing internal controls. We strongly feel that the enforcement functions will not work alone. NACS terms prevention and awareness as the other two important tools in our fight against corruption. This approach will also help to improve the status of service delivery and bring relief to the common man. We already have plans to set up Awareness and Prevention Wings within NAB to educate the people how to better combat with the problem.

Q: There have been reports in the media that the assets of certain retired military and civil govt. servants are not being investigated for various reasons?

A: As I have earlier mentioned, NAB is an independent and autonomous organisation. All are equal in the eyes of the law; we don't have a favourite child. We work through credible evidence, which can be tenable in a court of law, mere hearsay and rumours don't warrant the use of our precious human resource.

Q: There are reports that NAB's investigations wing lack the necessary skills to take on complex white-collar crimes and the existing pool of investigators is predominantly based on former police and FIA officials. People have serious reservations about these organisations. What are the measures NAB plans to take to overcome this impediment?

A: It may be understood that the kind of job undertaken by NAB has started in Pakistan for the first time. I admit there may be a shortage of skilled & suitably qualified investigators going into white-collar crimes details. We are conscious of this fact. It has affected our performance but we are making efforts to address this problem. To make amends for this deficiency, NAB has recruited investigators who will undergo training in their specialised fields. These investigators are selected through a rigorous process based strictly on merit. A second course of investigators is about to graduated last month. We hope to continue with this programme. In addition, we organise regular in-service training programme for our serving officers. We conducted the first ever Advocacy Training Workshop in the country at Islamabad. It was aimed at developing the advocacy and courtroom skills of our lawyers. Let me tell you, we lay great emphasis on human resource development and keeping up the latest techniques of developing this resource. We strongly feel that our real asset is the people working in NAB.

Q: It is said that junior lawyers man NAB's Prosecution Wing for experienced lawyers are unwilling to come to come to NAB because of limited professional opportunities. There is an increasing trend of Special Public Prosecutors representing NAB in courts. What measures are you taking to improve the prosecutorial services of NAB?

A: NAB has a pool of expert lawyers working in our prosecution wing. Our PGA has the qualification and experience to be eligible as a Supreme Court judge. The young lawyers available in our team are qualified locally as well as from abroad and are competent to handle intricate and complex corruption cases. However depending on the nature of the case, NAB at times has to hire services of lawyers with good standing. We have to match the lawyers hired by the defendants who are paid exorbitant fees. We are making efforts towards further strengthening of our prosecution wing. As I said earlier about the Advocacy Training Workshop, we constantly endeavour to overcome all our institutional problems.

The concept of plea-bargain in accountability process has yet to go well with the major sections of the society in Pakistan. Most consider it an un-ethical process by which the accuse strikes a deal with NAB and gets off by surrendering part of the corrupted money. Some critics speak of its fall out in the organisations itsel£

The concept of plea-bargain in international legal practices is not new. It is more than one century old in Americas & Europe. In Pakistan it has recently been introduced through various provisions of NAB Ordinance. The objective is to minimize administrative and financial pressures on our prosecution and judicial system through a facilitated recovery of looted money. The accused exercises his legal right to choose for this process through a written request to a court of law, pleading guilty to his crime. He returns the corrupted amount and stands disqualified from holding any public office besides being debarred from applying for loan to any DFI. The amount is determined by NAB basing on the evidence available and let me tell you we leave no stone unturned to find out the exact amount of corruption. The whole process of plea-bargain goes through an exhaustive process in a very transparent manner at various tiers. The final decision to accept or reject the plea rests with the court.

Q: A host of corrupt politicians, bureaucrats and others have sought refuge in Europe & America. What efforts NAB so far has made in getting them back through legal process?

A: Pakistan has various extradition treaties with various countries while with others we have to go through lengthy legal discourse to reach a common ground in law. With countries like UK and others with whom Pakistan does not have extradition treaty , efforts are underway to reach the one so as to bring the corrupt absconders back. A number of Mutual Legal Assistance requests are being processed with various foreign jurisdictions in (UK, USA, Switzerland, Australia, Canada, Norway and UAE). You must have read about the Ursus Tractors currently in progress in Switzerland. The case was taken up by the Swiss judicial authorities as a result of Mutual Legal Assistance taken up by the Govt. of Pakistan.

Q: There have been reports that BB would return by the end of the current year. What is the current status of BB's and Asif Zardari's cases with NAB?

A: BB and Asif Zardari's cases in Accountability Courts are runing and court has taken no deciosion yet. the detaied of BB and Asif Zardari cases are still at NAB web site..

Q: PPP spokesman and stalwarts have always portrayed Asif Zardari being a political prisoner and the victim of govt's high handedness. His long incarceration is being termed as a political vendetta. It is being said that the govt. has very little evidence against his corruption and is unnecessarily prolonging his ordeal?

A: The Government has incontrovertible evidence of Benazir Bhutto and Asif Ali Zardari's involvement in financial corruption, kickbacks and misappropriating public money and stashing it in foreign banks. There are cases against them and their associates regarding commissions and kickbacks currently under way in courts in Switzerland.

Asif Ali Zardari has been convicted in the Steel Mills case by Accountability Court. His other cases are currently in progress with other courts. I would also like to mention here that out of seven years since his cases have started, the total period of adjournments asked by the defence counsel comes to about two and a half years. If you leave aside the weekly and other public holidays, the actual number of days that the defendant has appeared in a court comes to very little. You can compare this with the adjournments asked by the prosecutor and make out for yourself that the defence counsel is deliberately trying to drag on the cases and cause delay.

Q: Can you give us a brief about NAB's operations so far?

A: a. As of June 2004, NAB had filed 682 cases in courts of law out of which 422 have been decided and 260are in progress. We have achieved conviction in 331 cases while 60 were acquitted and 31 were withdrawn for various reasons.

b. 1350 investigations have been authorised out of which 509 have been completed, while 492 and in progress.

c. The direct recovery situation in June stands at Rs. 115.276 billion while NAB has affected indirect recoveries of 10.224 billion. I would like to mention here that recovery through Plea-Bargain alone stands at Rs. 4.662 billion.

Q: There are have reports in the media about the assets and liabilities of certain members of the parliament based on assets declarations. Is NAB investigating these claims for veracity and who will ultimately monitor them?

A: The Election Commission has been requested to develop a monitoring mechanism of the assets declared by the elected representatives. It can refer any discrepancy in the assets of an elected representative to the concerned organisation, be it CBR, NAB or any other.

Q: Is there a proposal for making structural changes in the NAB in the near future?

A: There were reports that a consultant team from Hong Kong was working with NAB experts to make NAB a modern anti corruption agency.

When NAB compiled the National Anti Corruption Strategy (NACS) document, one of the recommendations of this document was the strengthening of the anti corruption agencies. This idea was taken up and NAB looked for a consultant firm with the right credentials. A couple of international agencies were consulted for funding the cost of the restructuring effort. Asian Development Bank and Department For International Development (DFID) UK came forward and the Hong Kong based consultant, De Speville and Associates were hired for the restructuring. They are the most credible team with immense experience of working in similar conditions. They completed their report in first week of February this year and our own team of experts are working on its recommendations. We have also recommended the restructuring of provincial anti corruption agencies.

The basic idea was to have strong and effective anti corruption outfits in line with the recommendations of the National Anti Corruption Strategy.

Q: There are reports that NAB is investigating the affairs of forex companies. What is the present status of the investigations and what are the plans to recover the looted money?

A: NAB is presently investigating 49 such companies. We have already settled matters with some of them, while matters with some others are being actively pursued. Unfortunately, some of the criminal elements in some companies have not only gone underground but have also taken the money aboard. Nevertheless, NAB is pursuing the matter to get the money back to the rightful owners and bring the culprits to book.

Q: How do you foresee the future of NAB as an anti corruption agency? Do you see any major change in its future role?

A: As I said earlier, we are considering major restructuring to improve our operations. Our role will however, not change, we will continue to be an anti corruption agency with powers to investigate and prosecute cases of corruption, misuse of power, white collar crime, economic crimes and fraud. With this effort, we will add the functions of public awareness and education and corruption prevention. We have also recommended the revamping of provincial anti corruption agencies. With all the right structures in place, we hope NAB will be in a better position to take on the challenges of the future.

Q: Can you tell us where Pakistan stands in global fight against corruption and what efforts your bureau is undertaking for enhanced co-operation with other similar agencies around the world?

A: Within the last few years, Pakistan has emerged as a major regional player in the fight against corruption. We are among the countries, which ratified the UN Convention Against Corruption in Mexico last year. We actively participated in the draft formulation of the convention and insisted the addition of certain clauses, which supported the point of view of third world countries. One such issue was the return of proceeds of corruption to the country of origin.